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Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
New Micro Build...  Reply with quote  

Soooo, I shipped my computer back from the east coast after I attended the FITES 200 MAN LAN. Needless to say, it didnt make it back to OK in working condition. Now that my rig is busted thanks to UPS's piss poor package handling, I decided it was time to build a more travel friendly rig. Usually I dont splurge on a system, but with the insurance $$ from UPS (thanks again UPS) and my income tax refund, I figured why not. My main focus was getting a powerhouse of a system into a case that I can carry on a plane. The case I picked might be slightly too big, but Im going for it.

Let me know what you guys think.


Specs:
Qmicra Qv2E mATX Case
XFX HD-597A-CNF9 ATI Radeon HD 5970 2.0GB - Not 100% sure about this card yet.
ASUS Rampage II GENE X58 mATX
Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz
6GB Mushkin Redline DDR3 2000
2x WD VelociRaptor 300GB (RAID 0)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB
Pioneer Blu-ray Writer BDR-205BKS
Creative SB X-Fi Titanium - From Existing System
PC Power & Cooling 750w Silencer - From Existing System
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme (True Black) - From Existing System

Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:41 am  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
Hung Like a Flea


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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Here's my $.02, don't take any of it too seriously Wink

-XFX HD-597A-CNF9 ATI Radeon HD 5970 2.0GB-
The 5970 is a powerhouse card, I ran two of them for a couple weeks and one of them for about 1.5 months. It's easily the most powerful card, Fermi included, out there right now so unless you're rocking a 30" like me @ 2560x1600 then it's your best option.

That said, it's probably a little overkill for anything but 1920x1200 and up, so if you're not running that or better I would stick with a single 5870 to save on heat in that little box. My 5970s would idle at 72-75c by themselves, closer to 80c in CrossfireX shoved up close to each other.

-Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz-
The i7 960 is a good chip but EXTREMELY overpriced as it's going to give you no greater power in games than the 920 overclocked. They have the same cache, same core and I believe it's the same stepping as the newer 920s.

Now if you aren't planning to overclock that changes things some, and the Rampage II Gene like the Evga X58 Micro SLI has passive cooling on the chipset which can really hinder overclocking an X58 system. However I think you'll find that the benefit of less than 600mhz is greatly outweighed by saving $300 on the cpu. I just helped Maximes get his i7 920 D0 for $210 shipped, we can find you one too.

-6GB Mushkin Redline DDR3 2000-
This RAM tells me that you are planning to overclock, and the Rampage II Gene happens to be an amazing overclocker but the passive cooler on the X58 chipset really hinders what you will get in a mATX case. Real speed increases from memory come from low latency timings and not higher mhz, but this RAM has both. You could save $100 and get the same timings with a 1600mhz set and not lose ANY real world performance, and very very little benchmark performance.

-2x WD VelociRaptor 300GB (RAID 0)-
I have had a couple of these drives, still have one and while they certainly outpace the older generation Raptors they really still pale in comparison to a single mid-range SSD. Considering their price you could spend $40 more and get a pair of Intel X25-M 80gb drives and GREATLY increase the performance you'd see from the Raptors.

Other than that I have nothing bad to say about the new VelociRaptors, they are fabulous.
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Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:01 am  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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Lots of good input Nikola.

I have a 24" Samsung 2493hm that I run at 1920x1200. I think I'll be keeping that video card in my build, but its going to be the last thing that gets ordered. Im going to try and use my existing 2x ATI Radeon 4850s (if they are still working right), until after the Fermi card is released for a few weeks.. Im hoping for some kind of price drop from ATI.

I completely looked over the i7 920, and thats a good catch. Im going to do a bit more reading, but it seems like the i7 920 is going to be a better buy for the money. I've never seriously OCed my system, but that is what I had in mind for this build.

For the RAM even with the 1600MHz kit, it was only $20 cheaper than the 2000MHz kit. I was looking to stick with Muskin because they are the cheapest w/ the lowest timings.

My only worry with getting 2x 80GB drives is that between my OS drive and game drive, I have over 140GB used already, and I dont have all my games installed. After I read your suggesting I am considering going to 2x Intel X25-M 160GB, but I have to justify the cost with myself yet. Do you have any reviews where the Intel X25-M's are put against some Raptors?

Thanks again for your input it's appreciated.

Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:42 pm  View user's profile Send private message
VinceVaughn
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 630
Location: OKC
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Agreed that the 960 is overpriced...buy a 920 or a 930 cause you wont see much improvement till you hit the 1200 dollar 6-core 980x. At this point in time I would recommend the i7 930 cpu

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225&cm_re=930-_-19-115-225-_-Product

its pretty much the same as the 920....but it OC's better and is clocked 200mhz higher than the 920....and its not that much more expensive. its definiatly the cpu I will choose when jumping to the socket 1366 platform.

a 5970 is waaay to big and hot for a micro case.......you'll have problems working around that beast....I would agree with Nikola at mere 1080p a single 5870 would work fine....cause hell my sli 285's are overkill on my system at 1080p

just my humble opinion.....
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Post Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:35 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
Hung Like a Flea


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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I would stay away from the 930 only because it's being reported that good OC batches are few and far between for them. So it's alot less likely you will get a good OC out of one, where as you are pretty much guaranteed a minimum of 3.4ghz on ANY 920, C0 or D0 stepping, on air.
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Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:49 am  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
Nikola
Hung Like a Flea


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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Petch wrote: My only worry with getting 2x 80GB drives is that between my OS drive and game drive, I have over 140GB used already, and I dont have all my games installed. After I read your suggesting I am considering going to 2x Intel X25-M 160GB, but I have to justify the cost with myself yet. Do you have any reviews where the Intel X25-M's are put against some Raptors?


I actually had the same problem when I ran VelociRaptor RAID0 for my Games drive, I just ran out of room because of my inability to stay away from the Steam Holiday Sale Embarassed

As for actual benchmarks, I will do some digging as I can't remember where one is off the top of my head. I believe that Tom's Hardware has a good set of charts comparing the top SSDs and top HDDs so you might check that out.
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Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:54 am  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
VinceVaughn
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Hmmm everything I have read on the 930 says it hits 4.2 without issue....but I could be mistaken.....
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Post Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:23 am  View user's profile Send private message
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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Here is one of the latest reviews that I read for the i7-930.

Full Review: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/03/01/intel-core-i7-930-cpu-review/

Testing and Overclocking
The other reason that we decided to review the i7-930 is because one of our contacts at Intel strongly hinted that despite its use of the same D0 stepping as the i7-920, it should be a much better overclocker. This makes a lot of sense, as Intel has been making Core i7s for more than a year, and will continue to make small revisions to the manufacturing process, even if these aren't enough to justify an entirely new stepping.

We started off by slinging our old D0-stepping i7-920 into our LGA1366 test rig and testing it again, as the original review used Vista rather than Windows 7, which we now use for all our product reviews.

Even with a new BIOS for our Asus P6TD Deluxe motherboard, with the vcore boosted to 1.45V, the QPI raised to 204MHz and Turbo Boost disabled, we were only able to overclock the i7-920 from 2.66GHz to 4.08GHz. This is still a great overclock, and increased performance magnificently with all the benchmark results improving accordingly.

In contrast, the i7-930, using exactly the same voltages, but with a CPU multiplier of 21x and QPI of 205MHz, was happy to run for hours on end at 4.3GHz. This is quite frankly a fantastic overclock for a standard LGA1366 Core i7, and more in the realm of what you'd expect from a far more expensive Extreme Edition. At 4.3GHz, the i7-930 returned markably better benchmark results than the overclocked i7-920.
[/quote]

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:35 am  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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My info isn't from reviews but from end users being unable to get past ~3.4ghz with the 930s. D0 stepping on either means a strong QPI though, the question is whether the cpu can handle the multi it's at.
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:38 am  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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So would you say Id be better off getting myself the Mushkin DDR3 1600 with timings of 6-7-6-18, or stick with the Mushkin DDR3 2000 with timings of 8-8-7-24?

From what you had mentioned earlier, Im going to assume the DDR3 1600 set is going to be better once its OCed.

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:36 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
Hung Like a Flea


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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The trick is that both modules are different, while the 1600mhz modules will likely get to at least 1800mhz, their timings may become lackluster on the way. The reverse is probably not as true for the 2000mhz modules since their timings are already so low they will at very least maintain that if you have to underclock them to match the QPI.

I guess it all depends on what it is worth to you, in reality you will never see the real world performance difference between either and both hit the general points of overclock for the i7 series without needing to OC the memory. Personally, I would go with the 2000mhz for epeen, but for any other reason I would stick with the 1600mhz.
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:58 pm  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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Alright, I'll stick to the 2000MHz its only $20 more and its already on my wishlist...

I checked around a bit for the Intel X-25 M reviews and comparisons. I found the SSD Chart from 2009 on Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-flash-ssd-charts/Desktop-Performance,938.html), and it looks like the 160GB takes a performance hit compared to the 80GB.

Would the Intel X-25 M 160GB be the best drive for the price (greater than 100GB)?

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:25 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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Well, the main gain of the 160gb over dual 80gb is that you keep TRIM support since it doesn't work in RAID.

As for bang for the buck, that depends on what you want. There are a plethora of drives that have ~30mb/s slower reads but have about 60mb/s faster writes and I believe on average they are cheaper than the X25-M. Look at the OCZ Vertex series for the best deal I think.
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:36 pm  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
VinceVaughn
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 630
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I believe intel just released support for Trim in RAID

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/cpu/intel-chipset-driver-brings-trim-support-raid-setups/
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:40 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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Nikola wrote: Well, the main gain of the 160gb over dual 80gb is that you keep TRIM support since it doesn't work in RAID.


Oh I was planning on purchasing 2x 160GB drives... I guess I didn't clarify that. I know that TRIM isn't support in a RAID config, but I figured when I reinstall I'll TRIM the drives then complete the reinstall, so I wasn't overly worried about that.

So the question should be, would the 2x 160GB in RAID 0 drives be the best performance for the price? Or should I be looking at different setup?

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:58 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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VinceVaughn wrote: I believe intel just released support for Trim in RAID

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/cpu/intel-chipset-driver-brings-trim-support-raid-setups/


Very nice. I wonder if this will work on a non-Intel RAID chipsets in the future.


This is not a firmware update, simply a motherboard chipset driver update, only for those with Intel Raid Chipsets, and obviously supported only through Windows 7.

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:01 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Nikola
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 790
Location: Edmond, OK
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4x80gb would be better performance for sure, but if you're looking for a two drive array then that is probably the way to go.
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:41 pm  View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
VinceVaughn
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 630
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christ! the data thorough-put of 2 drives is nuts.....let alone 4 drives.....
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Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:03 pm  View user's profile Send private message
Petch
n00b


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
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Nikola wrote: 4x80gb would be better performance for sure, but if you're looking for a two drive array then that is probably the way to go.


I didn't even take notice that getting 4x 80GBs is almost the exact price of 2x 160GBs. I'll have to consider that, Im just leery of using more than 2 drives in a RAID0 because your odds of failure increase with every additional drive you add. But thats my old school way of thinking... this is how I start with 2x raptors though! ahah

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:17 pm  View user's profile Send private message
LightningCrash
Smile like Bob, order your free LC today


Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 5020
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Petch wrote:
I didn't even take notice that getting 4x 80GBs is almost the exact price of 2x 160GBs. I'll have to consider that, Im just leery of using more than 2 drives in a RAID0 because your odds of failure increase with every additional drive you add. But thats my old school way of thinking... this is how I start with 2x raptors though! ahah


Do a mix of mirroring and striping?
Good operating systems and some RAID controllers have read-biased mirroring.

Post Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:06 pm  View user's profile Send private message
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